Inspired
by Julia Cameron’s advice, I faithfully write three morning pages. I originally
wrote three college-ruled composition
book pages. When I found a blingy gold-glittered
book wide-ruled comp book I couldn’t
resist, I wrote four pages (the equivalent of the college-ruled). Currently I write two graph-paper comp bookpages, which are equivalent to the 100-lines
in college and wide ruled comp books.
Having
an upper limit is comforting—I have a history of pushing myself too hard and too
fast. I would reach an original goal, and then keep pressing—as if overdoing
was necessary to doing at all. Of course,
after a couple of months, I would burn out and throw over my commitment to my
journal. An upper limit offers me a
psychological boundary and guilt-free stopping point.
That same page-count is
also a lower limit, which can challenge and stretch me. There are mornings when, at first, I have nothing
to say. But I keep writing—only to find some germ of an idea, a sudden turn of
direction that I wouldn’t have otherwise discovered. I’ve come to trust that
showing up for my journal ensures that my Muse will show up, too. (See posts on
The
Adventures of Journaling and Journals,
Diaries, and Kitty.)
Another way to think of
page requirements is that proverbial net Robert Frost referenced when he said, “Writing
free-verse is like playing tennis without a net.” A stricture can be a
structure, like a spine, from which a body of work can be built. Anyone who has
been paralyzed by indecision, or frozen by fear of the unknown, knows the
importance of having a starting point. A
page requirement can serve to motivate a writer to start. Peter Elbow, in his iconic book Writing Without Teachers, advises the
importance of free-writing. But that
free-writing is done within a set time limit.
A page-count might offer
security and direction; and, if used consciously, inspiration. In my Senior
Writing Seminar, we titrate, in a period of three weeks, from writing one to
writing three daily morning pages. Student Priscilla S. Boa-Amponsem
enjoyed the goal of daily writing three full pages: "It gives me
space. I can relax into my writing." Page requirements, if viewed as
open space for free exploration, can empower us—leading to vast discoveries.
Unfortunately, for all the many reasons
discussed in our blog posts, students use page requirements in a get-it-over-with,
not-too-honest fashion. To meet their page quota, they fiddle with margins; fonts
and font sizes; line spacing and first page information. They pad with long block quotes; interminable
introductions of The History of Everything Up Until Now, and Flintstoning
and not Landing
the Helicopter. Last pages are
plodding summaries of what was written in the previous pages, with no additional
insight or finale dismount. In short, too many students treat page-counts as a
chore, a worry, a punishment; a source of resentment, and a justification for grade-griping. No wonder that they often ask “How many pages
do you want?” Over and over. It’s as if they don’t believe the syllabus—or
don’t want to.
When asked “How many
pages do you want?” I often answer “None. I want less grading to do.” My less snarky answer is “How ever many it
will take to Wow me.” As the introductory quote to this post says: “Don’t
count words; write words that count.”
Focus is often the answer—writing more about less, as urged by One
Paper Clip: Detail, Design, Depth.
Speaking of depth,
consider what sailors do when the sea is becalmed so no winds can fill the
sails, or when a ship runs aground and can’t float. Mariners will row out in a
smaller boat to sink an anchor a distance away.
The hawser, an attached rope, is then brought back to the larger yacht or
ship, from where crew kedges—pulls on the rope until the vessel moves in the
desired direction.
Page requirements are what
make the game of writing possible. Even this blog is inspired by my goal to
post 100 essays by Spring of 2020.
Without that goal, I might not be so focused or inspired. Goals, in this
case page requirements, are the anchors we need to throw into an unknown depth
to move our ship forward. Let us all
endeavor to count and to count on our
words as vessels to help us navigate life in meaningful, deep, adventuresome, significant,
and pleasurable ways that count.
Works Cited
Cameron, Julia. The
Right to Write. New York: Putnam, 1998.
Gender inequality, social class, class system, status, role, and gender. These are few of many words of how some people around the world are viewed as. Just like that by watching Tammy’s video I have got to learn that Tammy was affected by these sociological terms. There will be few terms I will be explaining out from what I have learned in my course that relates to Tammy. Firstly, Social Stratification is the rankings and division of a person based on their wealth and society values. Feminization poverty is in which women experience poverty at disproportionately rates and are being compared to men. Sociological imagination is the difference in how society views and understands concepts. Status and Roles describes the position a person in society occupies. Lastly, life chance is an opportunity for individual to improve their quality of life.
ReplyDeleteTammy had to face all of these obstacles one can name in her society. The video “Tammy’s Story” is about a middle age woman named Tammy who comes from a poor cast and lives with her four teenage kids. Her role in the society is to work and provide a better life for her children. Every day she would walk ten miles to a fast food shop where her role is to clean the bathroom. Due to her poor status in the society and the work she does, her neighbor would call her “trash”. However her son thinks he is in a different class from her and that is because he is ashamed of the poverty and society taunts they have to go through. In terms of social stratification, Tammy is poor and therefore in her ranking is put all the way lower than everyone else’s. Due to financial problems, everyday Tammy would wear same style and brand clothes. Her family would get entertainment by watching television whereas for higher class entertainment would be watching in cinema. With sociological imagination, I strongly agree that social inequality is a social problem. Even though Tammy is a single head in her family, holds the title of feminization poverty and was called trash many times because of the work she used to do, she didn’t want to stay home, and get funded, instead she wanted to continue doing work and make a life for her and her sons. However, society judged Tammy only by her poverty and did not once think of the obstacles she faces with courage and still works. From Tammy’s story I understood that social stratification comes within us when we are born. Her son thought he is wearing fashionable clothes, and is in a different class than his mother because he was ashamed of her, but in reality the entire family is a lower class. Tammy would face obstacles and even gave up her dreams, but didn’t want that same for her kids. She wanted to go to college and become a school teacher however as she was born in a lower class, she had less life chance to fulfill her dream. Not only in Tammy’s had life but I see many people in India who had to face social imagination problems. My maid’s family was poor, but her daughter had such as great passion for dance and wanted to be on a dance reality show. However, instead of supporting the little girl to achieve her dreams society taunted her family based on their views of social class. They said how can a poor girl go into a television show and they would curse my maid and her family a lot. However, she did not want her daughter to go through the poverty life she went to, and so she supported her daughter and took her to participate in the dance show.
For some time I always caught myself trying to “get to the finish line” meaning trying to always get to the page limit my professors always wanted me to reach. To this day I still do it. I always catch myself looking at the bottom left corner of my screen to see how many words I have so far and how many pages I have accomplished so far. I also felt that I needed to keep on pushing myself and so I can reach the standards my professors wanted me to reach. If I wasn’t reaching the standard I would notice myself beginning to get frustrated and angry with myself for not being capable of fulfilling my professors requirements. I honestly wish that every professor would look at writing and teaching the same way that Dr. Rich does. She makes you feel comfortable and also makes you want to take the time to write, she doesn’t want students to feel as though they are required to do something but to express themselves willingly without struggling and constantly focusing on the negatives because most students are really always just worried about what their grade will end up being and will constantly be making sure they have completed everything the right way. What is even more frustrating and that some professors even take points off for improper formatting on papers as if all of the other critiques weren’t enough. It just makes me as a student so stressed out. Schooling has made it really frustrating to help ourselves emotionally and mentally.
ReplyDeleteInteresting article!
ReplyDeleteNicole Diefenbacher
ReplyDeleteI’m not going to lie and say that I’m not guilty of playing with fonts and margins to make a page count. I can understand how a page requirement can help the writer begin their writing, because I am personally someone who needs structure. But when I saw in the syllabus that it had 8 pages as a page “requirement” for our papers on Emily Dickinson, I can’t say I didn’t get nervous. I didn't feel comfort in that amount of pages because in the beginning of this semester, I had a hard time understanding Emily Dickinson’s poetry. So to get 8 pages out of it seemed like more of a chore and it made me anxious.
When I was taught how to write a paper, it was extremely structured. Introduction, body, closing. There has to be certain things in each section and if there aren’t then its wrong. And growing up with that mindset, it was ingrained in me that there was only one way to do something and that if I didn't do it then it was wrong. But being a part of your class has allowed me to at least attempt to break free from the whole academic idea that there is only one right way to write. And personally I’ve found that when writing for your class, I’ve had the most fun doing so, so thank you very much for that.
Dr.Rich,thank you for being such a great inspiration to me.I thank you for the opportunity that you have created for your students to write and journal daily.As a result I had one of my poems selected and placed in the poetry brochure.
ReplyDeleteOften,I do not know what I will write and where my thoughts will go nevertheless I am always satisfied with the end result.You stated that the 'MUSE' will come and it sure has.
I thank you for the paper clip approach and landing the helicopter it is with that in mind that I choose now not to go too wide,but deep.I can only improve from now on and follow the trajectory to think outside the box and to fish the way that suits me best-using my own techniques and my own methods.
Thank you
“Don’t count words; write words that COUNT”. I felt that. I never been a fan of writing requirements and page requirements because that’s when I feel like one’s writing gets boring and repetitive. Which is something I fear. I can’t stand the feeling of repeating myself and I never liked to get writers block and stuck on something and have to force myself to reach a certain page number. When you starting discussing about writing goals rather than requirements I felt as though that’s a better way to put it. Feeling inspired and focused on a specific goal makes you have a purpose in your writing. Not having a purpose or a goal when you’re writing makes it more of a chore than a hobby you should enjoy doing. I often find myself pushing myself to write a certain amount in order to please my Professor, when it reality I’m not even pleased in my own writing. There’s been plenty of times where I’ve handed something in but I wasn’t 100% satisfied with it, because either I felt I rambled on or repeated myself constantly just to make the requirement. In one of my psychology courses I had to do a 5-page paper minimum on a book we read. I felt as though it was impossible to complete, however, after reading the book and answering the questions I ended writing 10 pages on that book. And I handed it in with so much depth and confidence in my writing that I was satisfied with what I accomplished. That’s my goal when it comes to writing.
ReplyDeleteI can definitely relate to this blog post! Great read!
ReplyDeleteI am so guilty of asking ‘how many pages do you want.’ But, never do I fiddle with the margins or font size… well because that is beyond insulting to the teacher and to myself. It’s saying that I am not capable of writing that much. I guess when I ask the question how many pages, it is not only for clarification but also it is comfortable to me to know. I really love the quote “ don’t count words, write words that count.”
ReplyDeleteIn this semester I learned what ‘flinstoning’ meant and now as I write my papers I catch myself when I start to do it. I find that I use it to meet my requirements as well as set the paper up instead of just diving into the assignment.
I love to write. Unfortunately some topics definitely flow easier than others. In my young adult literature class this semester our homework assignments were open response journals to the books we read. At first, I was stressed two pages on the book with no guidelines. But as I sat down and started to free write about it, it just flowed naturally where I would have to catch myself when I started to go way past two full pages. I am speaking for myself here but I feel when I hear the page number, doubt takes over and I am not giving myself enough credit on my ability to write. I really enjoyed this post, it made me think and as always understood a little more from the teacher perspective as opposed to the student perspective.
Kelly Fleschner
Page count can be intimidating when I do not know what to write about. When I know what I am writing, the page count becomes the end goal. Sometimes when I reach my limit of what to write, I stop instead of putting more in there because it becomes repetitive and just plain. Dr. Rich quoted me about writing three pages in the journal. I did not even want to write two pages most of the time. But when I sat down to write in my journal, I found myself being free because i was not constricted by how many pages i had to write. I had the freedom of writing three pages of how miserable or happy my day was and it was just comforting to know that. sometimes, i would exceed three pages and go into four when i had a lot to put down. Sometimes I would not have anything to write, and I will write,"I don't have anything to write." I would do that until something came down. But I still had three pages of writing, "I don't have anything to write."
ReplyDeleteWhen I write long papers, I try my best not think about the page numbers because it is not the main point of the paper. For my manuscript, Dr. Rich said to write 20 pages or more. I wrote sixteen pages of what i wanted to write down. I wanted to reach the 20-page number count, but nothing was coming down and I decided to just leave it at 16 pages which made me happier.
Priscilla Boa-A
This blog post "How Many Pages Do You Want?" really stood out to me being a college student, because it’s a question that I ask myself and my teachers every time I receive a new assignment. I’m so guilty when it comes to asking that specific question because I find myself asking it a lot, and I simply ask this question to know what the limit is of the paper. It makes me feel more comfortable hearing some clarification on the page limit, because then I know how much I simply have to write in the paper. Though, when I hear the page number limit that we have to have for the paper, I feel as if I can get a bit intimidated and scared. I feel this way because I say to myself, “that’s too much” or “I can’t do that” and I automatically doubt myself before even trying to write the paper. That’s a bad habit that I have, because I shouldn’t be doubting myself due to a page limit, especially before not even trying to do it. In Dr. Rich’s class I learned what to have in a paper, and what not to have in a paper. I should never be up in the sky in my helicopter, because then that means I’m covering too much (being vague) or I’m flying off topic. She taught us that we should always try to keep our helicopter towards the surface, cover one main key point and expand on it, rather than jumping from one thing to the other. I truly appreciated that classroom lesson that we had, because that is something I always seemed to do (fly off topic or cover too much). The quote “Don’t count words; Write words that COUNT” really caught my eye. The picture at the beginning of this blog post actually made me interested in reading it, and I’m honestly so glad that I did. Therefore, I’ve learned that word count and page limits shouldn’t intermediate me, because I should write words that count and mean something in my papers. In my future papers, I will try my best to not ask “how many pages do you want” and be scared of it. I will not doubt myself and I will remind myself that I am capable to do anything.
ReplyDelete- Kelci Neto
Often times when I have to write something for class, the teacher assigns a specific number of pages. Usually we get get away with going a couple of sentences or paragraphs above (or even below the limit. But sometimes there are certain teachers that want it to be precisely at the number of pages assigned. While I agree that having an assigned number of pages for an essay could be helpful for students, making sure they don’t go over the top with their writing and aren’t just writing rubbish, I personally find that sometimes having a specific number of pages very stressful and strenuous.
ReplyDeleteOne reason why I usually find writing a specific number of pages difficult is because of the topic I am discussing. For instance, in some classes I have taken there have been assignments where I have gotten to choose the topic. And this is great! Especially when I can talk about a topic I really enjoy discussing. The reason why the page numbers become an issue in this case is that it then becomes difficult for me to discuss the topic in full depth without me going overboard. Sometimes I can feel my mind going past the amount of words I could/should be saying. Due to this thought, I start to overanalysis what I am writing and feel like I need to cut all of the ideas that flood through my head as I am writing. Because of this, my work suffers and the paper does not turn out as good as it could have been.
Another reason why having assigned pages is difficult is because they often conflict with the format of the paper. In most of my English classes growing up we were taught to write our papers in specific format. And while it is necessary for us as students to know how to write in APA, MLA, or Chicago format, sometimes the format can interfere with what we want to say. For instance, in one of my classes we were told to write a six-page paper, but we also had to make sure that we covered several points that we had discussed in the class. Although I was able to eventually get it done, while I was writing it, I was very stressed out. The cause of the stress was because there would be times during my writing where I forgot to mention one of the points I was suppose to make and wasn’t sure how to add it to my paper without getting off topic and without writing too many pages.
For these reasons I think that the number of pages for the essays should be suggested (or in a range) rather then assigned.
Page counts can sometimes get the best of even the greatest writers. When writing a paper, I would rather be worried about what I was putting in the paper, not how long it is supposed to be. But when teachers/professors give a page count, it usually gives students anxiety and stress. When you’re writing a paper, it doesn’t always make it to the page count, and if it doesn't, that’s when the anxiety kicks in. That’s when the bullshit begins to kick in. Students (including myself) begin summarizing, rewriting the same things, or just putting quotes to try and reach the page count. Every student is guilty of doing this, and it’s not fair for either the student and the teacher. Students are learning nothing by hitting the page count with bullshit, and teachers are losing time by reading the bullshit students add to their paper. If students are able to write a one page paper and complete the task to the best of their ability, they should be able to hand in that one page paper. Students should always be judged by quality over quantity. Quality is the most important part of the paper. The paper can reach the page count, but if it is thoughtless, it’s not up to par. If it’s not up to par, the student won’t get a good grade. If a student writes a really well written paper, but doesn’t reach the page count, the student will not get a good grade. In conclusion, I believe that teachers should give a range of pages needed, not a set page.
ReplyDeleteHi Dr. Rich,
ReplyDeleteSo, as the semester comes to an end, I realize this concept more and more. I will admit, I am one of those students who looks for how many pages are required. I do it to make sure I can collect enough information to reach that because it is a part of the grade I receive. I think that is the big problem with the page requirement. Teachers tell students that if they don't meet it, they will have points taken off (keeping in mind that they have completed the assignment and made their point in their paper). One teacher told us "5 pages. 5. That doesn't mean one or two lines on the fifth page, that doesn't mean half way down the fifth page. That means 5 pages." Or something along those lines and I thought, okay 5 pages or more. Then he said, "Don't go on for much more because I really don't want to read it." I'm not trying to call out that teacher because a lot of them do it, but this is an example I remember of why I struggle so much with the page requirement. However, with the writing style you have introduced, I realize that I should never worry about that and what's important is that I'm enjoying what I'm writing. It's quality over quantity. As a very analytical student, I have to remind myself of that and it's bringing back my creative side. I really appreciate that. After all the stress this school year, I'm back to my old self a little. Thanks for everything you taught me!
-Sofia Feggulis
Just by the picture placed above, I was intrigued to read this post. The quote “don’t count words; write words that count,” hits home specifically because I am guilty of word and page counting to fill up my pages. As a student when I am given a page count, I become very stressed and get anxiety as to how I am going to cover all the information in 5 pages. Either I lack information and don’t get to fill up 4-5 pages or sometimes I add too much information where I have to add more pages. I understand how some teachers use a page count as a guide for students to follow how much they should be writing. This means not too little not too much but I believe a student should write however they desire without getting too carried away of course. I believe as long as a student gets their point across, they should be fine. Students should be graded on the quality of their work not based on the amount of pages they have to complete. I have never found myself adjusting fonts or margins to complete the page count. Although I do always look at the page count to see how many pages I have left to complete. I wish I was more focused on the actual paper and what is being said rather than panicking whether I completed the page count. Dr.Rich assigns 4 pages for her essays, but the difference between Dr.Rich and other professors is the fact that she has taught us how to “digest” and break down are writing. If you know how to correctly land your helicopter you will not have to worry about page/word count when you know how to get to the point.
ReplyDelete- Ashley Cisneros
Dr. Rich,
ReplyDeleteFirst off I want to tell you how much I appreciate the title of this bog post! Whenever I write I always tell myself do not add fluff, do not b.s things, say what you want and let every word count! You always say to “get to the point” and it’s true. Why waste words on phrases that are not yours or just to waste time. You are wasting your own time and the other persons who is reading it. Words are the most power thing we have as humans. We use words to communicate on a daily basis. We use words to have more knowledge. We would not be us, without words.
I understand students who feel like writing is not important but it always will be. I feel sorry for those that do not understand this concept. I know sometimes I may not feel like writing a paper or let alone be writing this 250 word reply blog post but I know my words mean something. I know my opinion on ideas and topics contribute to the bigger picture. If I let myself dive into the writing, it always comes out successfully. As well as, as soon as I’m lost in my words I don’t even worry about the word count, I actually start to think about not going over the maximum! Once I burst out of the writer’s block I’m filled with wonderful ideas and thoughts and they somehow just flow well.
Advice to others, once you are over the “omg do I really have to write 4 pages” I promise the reward of being able to come up with words of your own, and furthering your knowledge in a subject is worth the wild!
Always,
Anastasia Vazquez
In high school and my early semesters of college, I can admit that I was one of the students who would see a “Minimum __” pages in an assignment requirement and immediately dread the assignment, even if it was on one of my favorite topics. While I understand that a good essay or paper shouldn’t be a page or two long, for a well thought out response to something, creating this page’s minimum idea for students can really impact their craft. A 5-page minimum is not a problem for me for most assignment because for most topics I can get my point and supporting information across within those pages. But if the requirement is more than 5, I start to worry. I begin to think about using the “Golden Shovel” to just add things to the paper to make the requirement even if it isn’t pertinent information relating to the paper. And then as you said Dr. Rich there are all the paper writing Dark Arts with font sizes and margins and etc. Doing things like this can often make a student feel dirty or dishonest, but they do it anyway in fear of getting a lower grade on the assignment even if they said what needed to be said using less than the page minimum. But as I got older and experienced more classes in college, page requirements turned into page ranges which helps me a lot and causes a lot less stress on me and many other writers. With a range instead of a concrete minimum, it helps alleviate some of the inevitable stress that will come with trying to create a paper.
ReplyDeleteI've grown to be comfortable within page limits as it gives me a limit or a goal to reach. However, I still don't like them as sometimes I'll write a super paper, but I'll be a page off, so then I'd have to go through sources again and pad the paper out until I hit the minimum page requirement. Even word requirements can get this way sometimes, and I prefer them. I've had many a time where I was short on words in a paper, so then I'd have to be very wordy, and I hate being very wordy unless I'm doing it to be funny. Even some of these blog posts trip me up sometimes. Sometimes I go over the 250 word limit with my point still getting across. Sometimes I don't even hit 200, so I have to reread the post to see what else I can talk about. Usually works out, and my point has more substance to it, so that's good. So when I get a no limit or minimum requirement on a paper, I get ecstatic because I can write on how long or how short for a topic, but also worried because I'm so used to 2 pages being too short of a paper, so I panic. But for a college paper, intensive research does lead to about 10 pages. But still, I wish professors were okay with a short paper as long as the point gets across. Because the quality of the paper should be graded more than the quantity.
ReplyDeleteIn high school and college, professors and teachers always has a set estimation of having the students write a five and/or more pages of paper. I would always hate writing out my papers because I feel it is a waste of time. Like you mentioned in the blogs, when I have to write a required amount of pages, I tend to write without fun or enjoyment, I simply write it to get it over with. Often times when my juices aren’t flowing I tend to write nonsense just to fill up or meet the required amount of pages. I can personally relate to the things that you mentioned in the blog, like writing is a chore or agonizing pain I have to deal with.
ReplyDeleteIn difference, when I do write and I feel like my juices are flowing, the pain becomes bearable to deal with. Sometimes I feel accomplished that I have put in the effort into my work. Times when I receive my paper back with a grade I did not expect or felt like it should not have been graded poorly, I get unmotivated to write future papers. Receiving grades like a B or C on my papers, when I believe I should have received an A, I feel like I have wasted my time stressing and did my paper for nothing.
When it comes time to free write, like writing out these blogs I do not see a problem or pain in the ass doing them. There is a requirement of writing two hundred and fifty words, but after completing each blog and writing all that I can think of, I manage to go pass the limit. As I write out these blogs, I am writing them from how I feel at the moment, unformal, and not feeling like I will be judged for the things I write.
Dear Dr. Rich,
ReplyDeleteFirst off let me tell how much I adore this blog post. Constantly throughout this academic journey of mine, have instructors imprisoned my creativity by placing page requirements in front of me. Before I even get excited about reading a new book or learning a new topic, I am always stifled with the page length requirements. When you wrote “How ever many it will take to Wow me" I felt that to my very core. That is the type of instructor I hope to be. Challenging my students to write meaningful words rather than 5 pages of bullshit. Id rather read 2-3 pages of a meaningful and innovative response than 4-5 pages of utter nonsense. It truly is a damn shame that more professors, don't apply this sort of logic behind their assignments. Considering how many times I have written a paper that I thought was incredible, only to have to add more nonsense to it, to simply "fluff" it up and add more worthless words. All in all, I truly feel like teachers and professors should require quality rather than bullshit quantity. That is the true way to challenge students and generate valuable and intelligent responses.
- Robin Gill
I am beyond guilty of being hyper-focused on the page requirement and making sure that I give exactly what i think the professor or employer is asking for. While this was allowing me to check off one box on the rubric for the grading of that assignment, I would find myself fluffing up the paragraphs and dragging out certain thoughts to the point of repetition. Especially after my classes with Dr. Rich, I feel more comfortable handing in a paper that is 100% valuable content but maybe a page or a half too short.
ReplyDeleteDr. Rich,
ReplyDeleteThis blog post really speaks to me. I find myself doing this all the time. I am so fixed on page requirements and cover pages and works cited that I don't put my all into the papers. I believe that it is quality over quantity. I find page requirements result in papers and assignments becoming restricted. It is so easy to get concerned with page numbers and start to focus on reaching a quota instead of actually immersing yourself in the assignment. I do this way too often in a majority of my classes. To be honest, I did it with our first paper. I began to fill the paper with useless information. Information whose sole purpose was to fill it up and get me to my page requirement.
I am studying to be an English teacher. I know that it is important for teachers and professors to give a page requirement because sometimes, students tend to think "oh, no page requirement, great i'll write one page and be done." I see the necessity of it. However, I do hope that I try to avoid giving page requirements when I have my career. I know it is easy to say that, but I guess we'll see what I do when the time comes.
Dr. Rich,
ReplyDeleteThis blog post really speaks to me. I find myself doing this all the time. I am so fixed on page requirements and cover pages and works cited that I don't put my all into the papers. I believe that it is quality over quantity. I find page requirements result in papers and assignments becoming restricted. It is so easy to get concerned with page numbers and start to focus on reaching a quota instead of actually immersing yourself in the assignment. I do this way too often in a majority of my classes. To be honest, I did it with our first paper. I began to fill the paper with useless information. Information whose sole purpose was to fill it up and get me to my page requirement.
I am studying to be an English teacher. I know that it is important for teachers and professors to give a page requirement because sometimes, students tend to think "oh, no page requirement, great i'll write one page and be done." I see the necessity of it. However, I do hope that I try to avoid giving page requirements when I have my career. I know it is easy to say that, but I guess we'll see what I do when the time comes.
Andrea Piaggio
A page count to me is a dreadful thing to have. Some teachers go above with the page limit on a basic topic that can be explained and proven in 2-3 pages. However, professors seem to want to read my bs that they could have lived without. Now I’m wasting my time thinking of what to write and writing it and the professor is wasting their time reading it. My writing does flow with the writing but does it add value? No. Would I like my paper to bring the nuance value and inspiration? Of course. But reinventing the wheel for me has always seemed harder to prove than to write. Without the research or evidence I need to write a wonderful paper it’s just ... no longer wonderful. It’s eh.
ReplyDeleteI can write 5-7 pages freely if given a topic that is broad and a professor, like you, who doesn’t have strict formats to go by. The first paper that I gave you this semester flowed naturally. I actually enjoyed writing the paper, for the first time in my life, because I was able to chose the poem and interpret it my way. I have an 8 page paper due next week and I can pretty much cover my point in 2, let’s see how I crap out those other 6 pages!
I can not tell you how guilty I am to this blog post. Not only does it scream me, but many of my fellow classmates. We are so frightened to not fill all the requirements of a paper especially the page requirement. Teachers and professors nail it into our heads that the more pages we have the more information we will have, and thats not always the case. When writing we shouldn't have a page limit, but a topic that inspires us to want to write as many pages as we can. Writing shouldn't be a stressful thing, but something that helps us be creative and put our mind at ease. Throughout college teachers and professors haven't cared about what I truly wanted to write in my papers or my opinions, just the answer to their discussion question and that I’m using MLA or APA format in how many pages they ask for. Professors and teachers are like robots and don't teach to teach, but teach to get a paycheck. Kean needs more professor like Dr. Rich to want students to open their minds to writing as something special and unique and heart warming, not a chore. While being in Dr. Rich’s class writing for me at first was difficult and I was writing to fill up my requirements like other classes, but then I started to realize thats not what writing it about. And slowly, but surely I am trying to find that I don't need to force words, but make them count like this blog post said.
ReplyDeleteDear Dr. Rich,
ReplyDeleteI honestly like to start off by saying I really enjoyed reading this blog post; more importantly, I really liked the title of this blog post, which is; “Don’t count words, write words that count”. For me personally, I do not like to have too much freedom. What I mean is that when it comes to writing, I prefer to have some sort of page count. I prefer to be given a number on how many pages can I express my writing in it. To explain myself more, this semester, I had taken a young adult literature class. For this class, we had to write weekly journals on the books we were assigned to read for each different week. There are countless things I was able to write about; however, I always struggle on to where I should begin. The professor gave us too much freedom, she did not give us a specific paper and she did not give us a specific word count. These journals felt endless to me because I did not know where to start or where to end. I did not enjoy that much. On the contrary, the page count concept and the word count concept do not work well that much all the time. I do not enjoy how some professors apply an exaggerated word count rule just because they want big papers. While writing, I feel like my paper is being exaggerated to the point that it makes no sense. Sometimes, I hate my paper too much that I do not want to reread it. The sad part about all of this is that there are professors who are willing to read these really exaggerated papers just because it follows their word count rule.
I get that having a goal can help a lot of people focus on what is important. But, in my opinion, having a page requirement can make sometimes freak someone out. I think it can limit the right brain and have the left brain take over. If you want someone to focus on their artistic skill and think outside the box then not having a page limit might open a lot of possibilities for someone. But this also depends on what exactly is the page limit and what is the topic being discussed. When it comes to Shakespeare I understand why we have a 5-page limit. This will challenge students to write more than they think they can. It will actually challenge them to use the right brain to research and discover new things in a text. When I started my Midsummer Night’s Dream paper I was originally 2 pages short when I finish it and I had to think of new ways to lengthen my thoughts and to get into more detail. I begin to read the scene I was doing my paper on over and over again until I discovered new ideas. I noticed that there was a line that would add more spice to my paper. I began writing and writing and was able to reach that 5-page limit. But, if this was any other student they probably just stopped at that 5-page limit stopping themselves to discover more mostly because of laziness. They may turn off their right brain and go straight to their left brain and turn in the paper. I have mix feelings on this topic but it is not like I don’t disagree with page limits. I understand both views of the topic.
ReplyDeleteI can admit that I am the student that constantly askes my professors how many pages do they want when I am given a paper. I can agree that I view page requirements as chores. When a professor gives a page requirement that is over the length of four pages, I immediately feel slightly annoyed. I find that it is easy to write a paper that is two to three pages but anything more is going to take time and a thoughtful insight which leads me to feeling drained. I can even admit that when you said the blogs had to be 250 words, I kept using word count to see if I met the requirement. I can say that I have never altered a font, size, or margins to reach a certain number of pages but unfortunately, when seeing that I have not met the page requirement I am guilty of rewording sentences to make them appear different although they have the same meaning. I also often add fluff to my introductory and conclusion paragraphs, therefore, when you stated that the class were to not include an introductory and conclusion paragraph, I felt defeated. I was not prepared to write four to five pages without fluff, but this slowly came to a change as you gave us pointers for writing our papers. I am also now capable of comprehending that although I may reach five pages with fluff it may not compare to a three-page insightful paper which relates to your statement, “Don’t count words; write words that count.”
ReplyDeleteBailey Vick
Dear Dr. Rich,
ReplyDeleteI to have a tendency to push myself to far. I overbooked my Thursdays this semester because I go almost continuously from 9:00 am -7:15 pm with only an hour and a half dinner break. I tend to crash on weekends and sleep longer. I also set early due dates for things so that they are done ahead of time, but I almost always fail at completing things early although I am almost never late with an of my assignments.
I do like the idea of writing free verse because I am a creative person, but I also like rules and structure because they do give me the security, I need to know that I am within the realm of what society has considered writing to be. I believe this is why I am able to adjust my writing style from class to class.
Unfortunately, I am not a writer and never have been. I do not enjoy writing because to me it an endless mocking game of grammar because grammar and I do not get along. I also have tribal handwriting that I am constantly mocked for. I have struggled majorly with writing in my journal every day because it is not something I have ever do or ever plan to do again after the semester is over. I am a reading person who loves to read even if I am reading the wrong word which I do quite often. My love of reading and not writing is what lead me to pick English as one of my majors.
By: Kathleen Conaty
I couldn’t agree more with this post in fact I secretly get annoyed with my classmates when they ask “how many pages does this have to be?” and not just in English class but psychology class and education classes. The point is not how many pages do you have to spit out, the point is how many pages will it take for you to get your thoughts out. It’s about documenting your thoughts or you’re feelings, what you’ve gleaned from your reading or research. So….why do I find myself asking this same question sometimes?
ReplyDeleteI’m somewhat of a perfectionist. I don’t like to admit it, in fact I put on this big facade about not caring and being easy-going because I desperately want to be that happy-go lucky person. But alas, I am not. This is why I have such a hard time writing. I think that there is so much good writing, there are so many talented people, that I feel I simply cannot compete. In addition I think I don’t have a creative bone in my body. Knowing this causes me great distress and anxiety. It is also time-consuming. The stress and anxiety is so much sometimes that I experience a mental block and try as I might, good, interesting, illuminating thoughts escape me and I give up frustrated and irritated. And then Dr. Rich comes along and shares the fact that she writes sometimes with nothing to say. Thank you for sharing this, Dr. Rich. Thank you for reminding me that it’s ok not to have something to say right away. This is a new tool in my writing toolbox. I’m going to call it the “stop worrying about of writing something good and write something honest” tool.
I think back to Emily Dickinson and what others deemed “good” poetry. Her poetry was criticized for not having the right punctuation or rhyme scheme. Can you imagine? We have enough things that rhyme and enough grammar. With Emily we get something more. True genius and inspiration and it comes in just a few lines at a time. Brilliant. Something to ponder and try.
Mali
Dr. Rich,
ReplyDeleteI can honestly say that I am very much guilty in changing font sizes, etc. to fulfill the page number requirements. Just knowing the amount in which I must write freaks me out, especially on a topic in which I’m not interested in. I often think to myself, “How in the hell am I about to do this?” As I am writing a paper in which the topic is semi-difficult, I find myself writing jibber jabbish. Once I have gotten my point across in a meaningful way, I come to find that I have not yet reached the page requirement that was asked of me. There I go, doing everything in my power to lengthen my paper. I’ll go through the font sizes and the spaces, as well has writing nonsense that has now turned my paper into complete shit. It becomes extremely frustrating for me because I don’t want to write a bad paper, but I also don’t want to get a bad grade for not reaching the requirements. The irony of it all: either way, I will get a shit grade for a shit paper! Now if I am writing a paper in which I am passionate about, I struggle with trying to get all my thoughts wrapped up enough to stay within the limits of the requirements. Once, I wrote an 8-page paper for a 6-page requirement, and I was told I did too much. Can I ever win?!
--Angie Ulloa
How many pages will be the death if everyone. We are so trained to ask as soon as we get our assignments how long does it have to be and what has to be in it. It's like you said we always try to write what we think the teacher will want. Even thought I have written 1 page papers that have more depth then an 8 page paper. Because when we are writing these papers that have page number requirement all we are looking at is the page number counter in the bottom corner of the screen and writing as much as we can to reach those pages. Yet as a future teacher I wonder, how do we avoid getting one page papers on a topic that should be at least 3 papers if we do not give a page requirement ?
ReplyDeleteWhen I meet DR JOHN, I was desperate to get my ex boyfriend back. He left me for another woman. It happened so fast and I had nothing to say about a situation. He just left after 3years without explanation. First, through your email and your first email, through your email and my first request, it has been launched Love spell to help us get back. Shortly after 48 hours he did his spell, my boyfriend started sending me messages again and I felt horrible for what he just put up. He was then a more important person in his life and he knows it now. We moved in and he was more open to me before he started spending more time with me before. Since the DR JOHN, is mine, my partner is very stable, he is closer to me than before. I recommend DR JOHN, to anyone who needs help. Email: drjohnsoco@outlook.com OR drjohnsoco@gmail.com or whatsapp him on +2348147766277 . .
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ReplyDeleteI found this blog interesting because almost every time I am assigned a paper, I ask the same question – “How many pages do we need to write?” or “What is the word count?” As far back as I can remember, there has always been an answer. However, last semester and this semester the answer is changing to no answer. I believe the reason for this is my delving deeper into my writing major and closing out my senior year. Freshman, sophomore, and junior year had a set page and word count. A minimum and a maximum. Now, professors are letting the students branch out on their own. Write what you feel. Perhaps this is because they know students in a writing class are more likely to not “half-ass” a paper and will dive as deep as they can and sometimes come up with four pages when the professor expected two. For my journaling, I was told to begin with a page daily. As I expected, it was hard to limit myself to that one page. I think of a topic and decide this topic is about one page in length when discussed in detail. I begin writing and about four lines in, my mind turns to a new direction and I change course. This happens at least twice more while I’m writing. Sometimes, it is hard to stay on track with my topic. Free writing exercises allow me to venture off and see what I come up with. I let my mind wander and am for the most part amazed at my journal entry. I started one way and ended a complete different way than expected. This is why I am thankful for my senior year professors who let me “wander”, sometimes it’s necessary.
ReplyDeleteThis is a question I hate to ask but also love to ask. I ask it because I know how full of words I can be and know that once I start, I have no problem stopping. I can get lost in my work, but in a good way that turns out to not always be good. Since entering college I have done my best to be more mindful of how much quality I put into my work versus the quantity of it. I most certainly agree on the point that when teachers emphasize on word count and things of that sort, that it sends fear through students because all we are thinking about is satisfying the audience for a grade. Making it to the finish line is all we are concerned about as if our lives depend on it, because in a way our grades do, which trickles down to our lives in the end. It becomes easy to forget to focus on what you’re writing about when you are doing your best to make a 10 page paper be beyond satisfaction at the opinion of one human. I personally began to doubt myself because I forgot that one person saying my paper is worthy of an any grade means the end all be all.
ReplyDeleteYes, page count helps to guide and secure students on what they’re doing is being done “correctly”. Seeing “Don’t count the page, make the page count” is definitely inspiring and a different way to look at writing papers that require page minimums or maximums. Perspective during these times of being assigned work matter because it can either make writing a paper a living hell and the most difficult thing ever or it could be the challenge one may need to know that they are capable of writing a quality paper.
For a while I always looked at an assignment as “when will it be over?” or “am I almost at the end?” and then I started to realize, I make the end. There’s no end until I decide when the end is and how I want to end it. I’m so sick and tired of professors always telling us how many pages something should be and trying to control OUR writing. I don’t understand it. How are we supposed to be creative writers and adults if we can’t decide when OUR work is finished? It doesn’t make sense to me? Why give someone a bad grade because it’s not the proper length? Says who? Why force someone to keep writing bullshit if they have nothing else to say? That makes no sense to me at all. It’s stupid. I like the freedom of my writing. That’s why I love when there’s no length on an assignment. As an engish major, I believe there shouldn’t be one. If you’re a good writer, you should know when your work is finished.
ReplyDeleteNancy Koster ENG4817
Good article that you write I like it https://www.wisheswelcome.com/welcome-messages-quotes-teacher/
ReplyDeleteAs a student, I never understood when others would play with the margins, make the fonts bigger, line spacing, and title page/front page information. I didn’t even find out that some of my fellow classmates were doing this to reach the page limit until I got to high school and was in my AP English Language class. This, I believe, is truly ironic, but that’s a story for another post.
ReplyDeleteI love writing. Writing was my first love (along with reading) when I came from China to America, having to learn a whole new language in just a few years. I was alone and felt isolated back when I first immigrated to America because of my identity as a Chinese-American. I was either too Chinese for my school friends or too American for my parents and relatives back home (I was learning English at an accelerating rate. I had supportive and understanding teachers who showed me love). I figured out at a young age that it was easier for me to read and write because I couldn’t tell people my feelings. If I told my parents, it wouldn’t have worked because they spent so much money to bring me here, I would feel guilty. I didn’t have any friends at school so I could not tell anything to anyone. But when my siblings introduced me to the magical world of the library, it was life-changing. I still love reading and writing to this day.
One of the many things that I love about writing is the fact that even though when I don’t think that I have anything else left to say, if I keep writing, eventually I will dig up another idea or gem. In which case, I am able to write more and keep that gem with me and possibly even turn it into a small project.
As a writer, I love writing. But I do understand the struggles that my fellow students (and myself) have with writing assignments. We have many classes and many other activities like our jobs, volunteering, or hobbies that we want to get to. Since there is such a limited time with everything, I know that I always feel rushed. In high school, the idea of writing and coming up with something new is not something that is on our minds anymore. Writing, like all other assignments in other subjects, is simply about getting the grade. We fill our brains with the information that we need for the test and then empty it out to make room for the next test. If we were getting graded on our creative minds, some of us who are less creative may get a lower grade. I know for me, that’s not something that I would be able to handle (check out my response in Grade Junkie Rehab).
So why not write what the teacher wants us to write and then get it done and over with? Get our degree and get out of here. The presence of credit over benefit is much higher than if it was the other way around. In order to make school a fun learning environment, we need to teach kids to take classes they enjoy for the benefit and be in a caring and bonding environment for learning.
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ReplyDeleteI am guilty of everything regarding academic writing. I try to meet the minimum amount of pages and try to understand my topic enough that I know I will get an A. I know what professors look for, so I write to cater to them and I get the grade that I want. This semester, I have seen writing in a way I have never seen it before. I try to make my academic writing as enjoyable as possible by seeing it as a piece of art. After reading Cameron and some articles from my Intro to Writing Studies class I see that I have put too many rules and boundaries on myself. I thought I was writing freely, but I just got comfortable with the A template that I didn’t learn anything. Recently, I wrote a 10 page paper I am proud of. It isn’t a great paper, but I understood more than I usually do because I researched it in advance instead of the night before. I also put my own opinion and tried my best not to just summarize. I put myself into the paper and became eager to collect more information in order to form a stronger argument. I handed in the paper knowing there was a lot of work to be done, but I felt that I had a breakthrough. I decided to break my template and do more work than asked to so that I could grow as a writer, but also enjoy writing.
ReplyDeleteWilneris
I always asked my teachers how long they wanted a paper and when they would give me a word count I found myself just adding ridiculous words in there just to make room. When I do not have a word count I am able to write freely and not feel pressured then I end up doing a decent amount of writing all on my own. I had one teacher who didn't give us a word count or amount of pages she wanted she just told us to write then to hand in our papers but then when we got our papers back she marked when she wanted us to write more and go deeper and thats how she got us to write the amount of pages appropriate without the presure.
ReplyDeleteStarting off I Love the title of the post and it should be said to every English student Around the World, Quality will always beat quantity, anyone can fill five pages with filler and bullshit but quality writing should always be what counts more than reaching a page limit or word count.
ReplyDelete-Aaron
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ReplyDeleteI am guilty! I’m guilty of being that student asking ‘how many pages does the assignment have to be?’ I’m not exactly sure why page numbers get to me. Maybe because in my undergraduate courses, even in high school the teachers will keep reminding us about page lengths and if we don’t meet that requirement, we will lose points on our final grade. Now I’m guilty of asking what’s the page minimum instead of how long it has to be.
ReplyDeleteIn my personal opinion, page count shouldn’t really matter. I always told myself, the more pages you have the better it is, but that is not always the case. I find that when a teacher puts a limit on something like a writing assignment, they are preventing that student from expressing themselves thoroughly. I say this because now that student is focusing on meeting the page requirement instead of their voice and creativity and the final product might just be a big pile of fluff!
AWP 5000
It's easier to say page requirements don't matter but the truth is, it does. In school, my focus is usually to appease the professor and the necessary requirements. Most of the time, the topics provided were decent. If it's a story that I’m passionate about then I completely get lost in the words. I begin to feel free and want to research the crap out of everything that can boost my knowledge. At some point of course editing is necessary but I don’t want to take away from what I want to share with my professor, therefore I go over the page amount. At this point the minimum or maximum doesn’t matter. Being creative, writing for yourself and the story becomes everything.
ReplyDeleteNow there are some professors/ teachers that are a severe pain in the who-ha because they nitpick for tedious reasons. They are a stickler for the rules. Not that there's anything wrong with following the rules but if it is making you force those mandatory rules-like values on people then heck yea take a step back. If they assign 5-8 pags, then there must be 5-8 pgs. If a student does below the minimum then by all means be disappointed. If a student goes over by one page, it’s not necessary to belittle them due to their lack of comprehending 8 pages. In a way it shows your student got into the writing task.
Personally if it’s a topic I cannot get into then I’m doomed. I know for a fact I turn into the best bullshit artist/writer. It is challenging but I do get the job done. At this point I’m not concerned about the work but more on giving the teacher what he/she needs to be happy and leave me to hell alone.
Meagan AWP 5000
Like I’ve mentioned in previous posts, I’ve never experienced an english course where we were told to “just write” without being given a prompt before taking your Poetry ENG 3500 course Dr. Rich. The freedom of simply writing is frightening, yet refreshing. The most common question that occured during our essay assignments for this course was “how many pages”. You did provide us with a set page number, but I believe that’s simply so we dont bull shit the assigment. You wanted us to put thought, time and effort in our analyses of the poetry that we selected. I’ve always been the student to write the bare minimum when it came to page requirements. As long as I hit my mark, and it's full of meaningful content, it shouldn't really matter. But not everyone would agree, I know students that love giving the maximum, to show that they have put the maximum amount of time and effort into the assignment. Saying things like “more is better” but in most cases, writing too much can cause you to overlook the main point of ur writing. Much like in poetry, I always felt that short and sweet is better. Long poems may paint a much more vivid picture, or tell a better narrative, there are cases where when the writing is too long, I (personally) get uninterested.
ReplyDeleteChristian Paiz
AWP Spring 2020